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Little Hinges Swing Big Doors: Small Tweaks Equal Big Money

Get ready for a masterclass of an episode! Tommie and Tieron discuss strategies to optimize your brands performance through small tweaks, like two-step registration to reduce friction, adding geo-targeting, and understanding your maximum cost per conversion. They share stories of huge revenue lifts from minor changes, and emphasize why you should always be testing to find the tweaks that will yield big results when applied under the right strategy. Tune in to learn tactics from the pros to incrementally improve your business.
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Key Episode Highlights

In this episode, you'll learn:

  • How breaking registration into two steps can reduce friction and boost conversions
  • Why understanding your maximum cost per conversion is crucial for scaling
  • What geo-targeting is and how it can increase opt-in rates


If you’re enjoying this podcast we encourage you to please leave a review, share this episode with someone who needs to hear it and hit the subscribe button so you don’t miss out on any future episodes! Click here to subscribe on Apple Podcasts

[00:00:00] Tommie: most tactics are going to fail if you're doing them under the wrong strategy, you know what I'm saying? Sometimes the most basic tactics with the right strategy could make all the difference in the world, which is what a lot of these little hinges swing, big door moments that we're talking about I tell him ready to hear that story, man, 

man. So, you know, I've been doing this a long time, man. And what I, I wouldn't say amazed. I wouldn't say that's probably the wrong way to put it, but it's just a reminder, that the smallest things can make the biggest difference.

And, you know, I'm working on a project right now where. You know, we've been working, I've been working on this project for a while. I'm talking like, you know, in like years, not months. Wow. we've had some great, great times and lately, you know, just always looking for that edge, you know what I'm saying?

Always be testing, you know, ABT, you know, some people say always be closing and say, right, but in lay in the world that I'm in is always be testing. And so. So I'm always pushing that on my partners and my clients and what have you. And no, just this week, I just reminded again, because I've been, you know, we've been having this conversation about this test that I wanted us to run.

And in, in, in my heart of hearts, it's such a small thing, but I've seen it before. I've seen what it was do. So I already kind of knew, and you know, here's the crazy thing, right? Like it's successful. I've been in this game. We fail a lot, you know, we fail a lot. So a lot of stuff don't always work. But this is one of the ones where I kind of like knew.

Right. From my own experience, you know what I'm saying, of doing it. And I know it's such a small and it can seem so insignificant. Mm. But the results, man, you know what I mean? So, essentially what I'm talking about, just so our listeners, I'm gonna give you guys. A peek into this world, we basically are running a webinar funnel, right?

And I know some of you guys are doing hardcore like e commerce, physical products, you know, maybe you don't run webinars and I understand that, but for the sake of conversation, just for, we can prove the point of what the topic at hand today, you know, little hinges swing big doors. One of the things that I've been wanting to test in this particular project that I've done multiple times before is what's called a two step registration.

And essentially what happens in a two step registration is that you're giving, you're breaking that process down into two steps instead of one. Why, why does that matter? Well, what happens is. When you put a lot, the more you put in front of someone, the more friction it creates, the less you give them to do, the more likely they are willing to take a micro action backs.

So when you have something that's People want, and you, but you put a lot of friction in the way of it. Some of the people that might want it might not, might change their mind because you're making it too hard for them. Right? So essentially, this is kind of what's at play from a psychological standpoint is that you have this thing that people want, and then you put all of this friction in front of them because they got to like do all of this stuff to even get the thing that you're offering them in this example, a webinar.

But with a two step you breaking it down to simple terms and saying, you know, Hey, just take this one action first. And then once you take this action, we'll allow you to take the next action. And that alone gets a higher conversion rate. And not only that, because you get a high conversion rate when you have an offer that already converts.

And you're getting it in front of the right people already. Oh, when everything else stays the same, you get more leads through the pipeline. Nothing really changes. Right. Right. Getting more people through. Well, the idea is that if you get more people through, you will get more sales. Right. And that's exactly what happened.

And you know, I was just so excited. Again, this ain't nothing new, but it's just kinda like going back to basics, man. Always be testing, always be pushing the envelope. Mm-hmm. and, and, and got a breakthrough there off of a really small, subtle little tweak. What kind of lift are we 

[00:05:50] Tieron: talk, what kind of lift are we 

[00:05:51] Tommie: talking about?

I mean, lift wise I wouldn't, I would say a cost per lead reduction was probably about 40 percent Jesus reductions in our, in our cost per lead, somewhere 30 to 40%. This is still really early because we just kind of rolled this out, you know, which is why it's top of mind for me right now. And I was so excited when we was talking about it, right.

I'm literally on that high right now, if you will, you know what I'm saying? But that's, that's essentially what, what happens. So, so basically now for the same money that we're spending, we're just getting more leads and as a result, more sales are coming out, which is really exciting. That's exactly what I thought it was going to be, but it's so insignificant.

I'm probably the only one in this scenario really understood how powerful this thing is because it seems so insignificant, but because I'm me. And I got my background that I have and I'm speaking from past experience of doing this, you know, we were able to implement this test and get this result. And so now I'm trying to pass that information along, you know, to other people.

And it's like, always be testing. I'm not going to say every test you're going to test. Every test you're going to try is going to work. No, that's not true. A lot of them don't work out, but when you get one that work, man, they can work like gangbusters and it could be something so insignificant as taking a person who about to register for a theme and instead of getting them to do it all at once, breaking it up.

In the. 

[00:07:34] Tieron: Real, real simple. It's it almost, it almost reminds me of why the quiz funnels are so powerful. Right? Because people are taking these micro actions up front all the way to the point to where boom, now the product is in front of them and then now they want to buy it. So you see these like, you know, double digit conversions when you add that quiz funnel on top of that.

Yup. I got a story similar to yours too, right? Oh, 

[00:08:02] Tommie: I was not. Cause I was going to say, I was going to say I was going to talk about something else with that. We'll, we'll come back to that. You got, you got the, 

[00:08:09] Tieron: you got the loop 

[00:08:10] Tommie: open in my brain. Now we'll come back to that. 

[00:08:14] Tieron: So I was, I was talking with this with this children's brand, right?

Never, never been in this market before and never done anything with with children's products and. But a huge fan when it comes down to anime and manga and all that type of stuff like that. So I'm looking at, I'm looking at their offer and my mindset is, well, how can we get closer to what people really want versus what you're just selling them?

Right? So essentially what we did was we just gave them a coupon code that allowed them to get more access to the person that was selling the offer anyway. So essentially they had a program to where their kids were getting straight A's. Right. So essentially that's what they're selling at a low price point.

Well, the coupon allowed, well, coupon allow other people's kids to get more access to them. So as soon as we added that coupon, as soon as we added that coupon to it, boom, the sales shot up, nothing else. We didn't change anything. Nothing changed in the ads. Nothing changed in the funnel. Well, obviously that one thing changed in the funnel, which was here's a coupon code so that you can get more access to the person that created that.

People took that, like people took that, like nobody's business. And it was a, it was a a reoccurring subscription on the back end. So now you could buy this one time product, of course you could buy things throughout the funnel, but now they have reoccurring income now just because it is one thing.

Change the chain, change it, change, change the economics of the business. And they were able to do, they were able to do a 

[00:09:46] Tommie: whole lot more after that. That remind me of another scenario in a coupon specifically right now to the webinar thing, but small tweaks. Listen, bro, big money at the time we was running a trip wide, you know, a free plus shipping offer.

Okay. For e commerce brand and essentially the funnel was doing okay because it was, it was basically like, you know, buy this thing you get, you, you pay, pay the shipping, just pay shipping. We're going to send you this thing for free. Just pay shipping. Okay. One of them that we tested, what we got the idea from was like this credit card knife.

I don't know if you remember this offer back in the day. Oh, do you remember that? The credit card knife. 

[00:10:36] Tieron: Yeah. Survival, 

[00:10:38] Tommie: survival. This wasn't that, but it's in that vein, right? I got you. So essentially when you do the free plus shipping, you know, in the funnel is essentially, you know, Now, once they got one for free, we would sell them more at a discounted price if they wanted to buy more for family members, what have you, whatever the case may be, right?

That's how we was offsetting the cost of the funnel, but we kind of were getting stuck, you know, at about, you know, five, 800 a day. You know, once we kind of got to like 1, 000 a day, the numbers weren't really working anymore. Okay. All they did. On the thank you page or the back of that funnel, put a coupon on them 20 percent off if you use this coupon in the next seven days, sales in the store, because remember, this is a, this is an e commerce store, by the way, but this free plus shipping offer is just one of the products, you know, that they got in a whole store.

So essentially. You know, the free plus shipping offer. The whole idea of that anyway was to acquire, and then we're going to use that audience, that list to promote other products in the store, but by putting that coupon code on the thank you pay sales, just boom, and we was able to scale, it was able to scale the front end of it because the immediate revenue we was able to get just by adding the coupon on the thank you page.

[00:12:14] Tieron: Yeah, that it's, it's again, the name of the episode is, you know, Little Hedges, Small Tweaks Equal Big Money. It's that play people, a lot of people still don't 


[00:12:28] Tieron: really apply that to this day. You'll get to people's thank you page and it'd just be dry, right? There's nothing else, nothing else for you to even get offer or whatever.

I'm not, I would just put that out now. All these other stories is coming out. We were at we were at tech square labs back in the day. Right. And I don't know if you remember this, but there was a brother, I can't, his name started with an H, but I can't think of his name right now. He pulled up, he pulled up his Shopify store and showed us how somebody had bought and then they was immediately buying again.

And he was like, you see how I keep getting all of these extra. These extra sales that's coming in, like right back to back to back. And he was like, yeah, he was like, what I'm doing is as soon as they buy, they get an email with the coupon code. Yup. Telling them that they got X telling they got X amount of time to buy like 20 in the next 24 hours because you just bought this you got this 24 hour coupon code boom.

As soon as they, as soon as they grabbed the coupon code, they come back to the store, use it, and then now they buy. Now they didn't bought again. And he was just buyers of buyers of buyers. So just that one thing right there changed the economics of his business and he was able to scale more. And obviously from a conversion rate, you got the same person buying a product again, right after they just bought from you.

Absolutely. So we've, we've heard about like once a buyer is hot in there and that buying process, they've already been through your, they've already been through your sales process already. So they know what to expect. But now you just shortcutting it. Now they can click a button, add whatever they want to the add whatever they want to the cart and then check out again and add that coupon code.

They want that discount. 

[00:14:10] Tommie: I got to give credit. Cause I was trying to, I was wrecking my brain. So that awful, I was talking about the free plus shipping thing, that coupon idea came from trailer. Well, it

is what my boy got that, you know, and I'm not going to tell their business and all of that, but yeah, that's where he got that game from trailer. Well you know what I'm saying? Or whatever the case may be, but bruh, big, big game changer, man. Big, big game changer, man. You know, this stuff crazy. Right. So, but the webinar thing, right, if we go back to the webinar thing, what I was going to say about that is that I had tested this multiple times before and one other time we was doing this, it was the same, almost the same scenario where we implemented this, this, and this was probably more like a, it was probably more like a two step.

It seemed like it might've been almost three steps. But man, we got like this big reduction. We got this big 

[00:15:14] Tieron: reduction in the 

[00:15:17] Tommie: cost per lead really was able to increase straight from ads to, by the way, straight from ads. Okay. I'm trying to catch, I lost it. I was going to say it early.

I lost it. Maybe it'll come back to me, but essentially we had ran this before. And it was something I wanted to tell the audience, the listeners about related to the previous 10 that we did that. Cause that's essentially where, where, where this idea has been in my brain, you know, for such quite a time, quite time because of how profound it was the last time we actually really 

[00:15:56] Tieron: tested this strategy.

Cause the last time was for like a financial offer, 

[00:16:00] Tommie: right? Yup. Yup. Yup. It was. Yup. Yup. 

[00:16:03] Tieron: So last time you said you was doing it for finance, I believe. 

[00:16:06] Tommie: Yeah, yeah, it was but I lost it 

[00:16:09] Tieron: now. You lost it. I'm lost. I'm gonna jump in there And hopefully hopefully to come back to you. So while you was talking about that I was thinking about again little hinges swing big doors.

I remember seeing I believe this was actually What's his cat name? Alex Hamozi, I believe Alex Hamozi was saying this, but also heard somebody else say the same thing. They were saying that before they would launch, but it will launch an ad. What they would do is they make the posts public, get a bunch of social proof on a bunch of comments and everything else, load it up, then launch the ad.

And then they would launch one without the social proof and then split test the two. Not just higher conversions on the ad where they had all of the social proof and the comments on it. But also probably cheaper that would the cost for acquisition was cheaper AOV was higher people taking more up sales All of that because you're talking like 200 comments Oh my God, this is dope.

This is insane. Yada, yada, 

[00:17:11] Tommie: yada. Yeah. I've seen people mail their email list. Yes. The incentivize them. Yes. Comment on a post. Yep. Prior to launching an ad off of it. Yes. Because some people would try to go replicate this. They will go, you know, pay somebody on Fiverr to do the comments and all of it. Now that doesn't work.

No, no. What I, what I've seen at work is getting legitimate people, right? 

[00:17:40] Tieron: Commenting. 

[00:17:41] Tommie: Right. Preferably people who done bought from you before. Correct. Giving them an incentive to go and leave a comment, get the get the post going and then boom, you know, roll it, roll it out like that. And exactly. Go crazy.

Yep. Little simple thing. One little, one little simple, little small email game change facts. It also put me back in the mind of, I remember we was working with a brand. I ain't going to call a name either, but. I had been trying to, so we was having, so this brand, let me kind of give some context. This brand was selling a product that it was not a consumable product.

Meaning people are not going to buy it. It runs out. They're going to buy more. They probably got one shot, maybe two, because I think they had two, two versions of the thing that was, that was, that was pretty much going to be it. Then they're going to have to sell them something else. Right. But the price point was an issue.

Because comparatively in the marketplace, the price that they were selling at was like three times with all of their competitors were selling it. Now that was the reason for that. And that was the value prop to support that, but nonetheless, it created a lot of friction, right? Which for me, we trying to convert.

We're looking at this problem and saying, how do we solve this problem? One of those ideas ended up being payment plan. Well, how do you do payment plans? Long story short, we was able to get some tech affirm. I think what we end up using. For rollout of payment plan. But instead of me letting them just put it on their website.

Right. I'm like, that's easy. That's easy. Right. Yeah. You just go stick that on the website and then the conversions will probably go up. Correct. I was sure that, and that actually ended up happening, but before we did that, in my mind, I was like, there's pent up demand here. That's pent up demand. And I want to extract that demand.

I want to extract that value first. Because this is going to create a cash windfall, right? And so essentially what we were able to do, say that again, Rainmaker day, Rainmaker. Yeah. Yeah. Because we, we were able to essentially with very little effort announced this new payment option and gave people a 72 hour window to take advantage of the special.

Offer since we're going to be rolling this out, we have a special offer to announce that we're going to allow payment plans now, because we know y'all want this, but it's only good for the next 72 hours. Then it's just going to go on the website. And this special offer is just, it's not going to exist.

You'll still be able to buy the product. You'll still be able to get the payment plans, but you won't be able to get this special 72 hour off, right? Ran the play. We made 107 K in 72 hours off of that. Very little effort. I think we spent maybe like 10 grand on the ad. I said, 

[00:21:04] Tieron: I said, you said 170, 000, 107, 000 hours later, 

[00:21:10] Tommie: 107, 000 in 72 hours.

Jesus. Very little effort. Why? Now, here's the psychology of it, right? Because again, you know, little hands that swing big doors, but a lot of this stuff is also understanding the psychology of why it's working, which is also why we're breaking down these things and why they work and how to think about them so that you can spot these opportunities, right?

So that you can be able to make these small little tweaks. And get these big, get these big payouts from them. I knew that that demand existed. Now it wasn't just some that jumped out. It required me to really study this audience, study the customer base and understand what's really keeping people from buying.

Right. And I kept seeing over and over again, through surveys, through social page, social comments. All of it, price, price, price, price, price. When I went a little deeper, it wasn't just the price. The price wasn't a deterrent. People still saw the value, right? They just wanted some help with that. They weren't saying make the thing cheaper.

They were just saying like, I ain't, I'm gonna wait till I get whatever, whatever. Like they kept, you know, having different things, but no one was saying like, well, some people were saying it was too much, but some of them people just weren't going to buy anyway. Right. The sentiment was there were people who really wanted this thing and the price was the thing, holding them back from buying.

But they didn't, but, but, but they did not, they saw the value in it. So they wasn't discounting the value of it. It was just a price thing to them. And if they had another option on that or some relief there, they would be open to buying, which led me to understand that I dug enough. It's like, Oh, so if I gave them payment plans.

They will buy right and they had already talked about it and I was like, well, why aren't you giving it to them? Right. And it gave me a bunch of hog pod, you know, whatever BS and it's like, nah, this is what we're going to do. We're going to, we're going to, we're going to, we're going to, we're going to do that.

But here's, here's what I'm going to do. Here's, here's how we play this. And this is very little effort. We're going to run it like this. And then when y'all see all of these sales come in, you're going to get out there, you're going to get out of their boat and you're going to put that payment option out there because you already got a partner who's going to take on the risk.

Yeah. They're going to take a little bit more in terms of processing fee. I think a firm was taking like five or 6%. You know, and your typical, you know, payment processor was 2. 5%. I think they was at, maybe they was at like 2. 5. Cause I know like a lot of people like 2. 9 plus 30 cent transaction fees. If y'all know what I'm talking about.

I think they had negotiated there's lower because they were doing decent revenues, but a firm was going to take like six. So it was a little bit more, but it's like, that's money you wouldn't otherwise have. You're telling me you're not willing to give up a couple more percent. To get money that you wouldn't otherwise have, right?

They're going to take on the risk. You still going to get your money today, right? This is what we going to do. We're going to run it like this. And when y'all see these money come in, y'all going to see what time it is. And then after the two hours, we just rolled out the payment plan on the website. They probably still got it on there to this day.

Cause it makes sense. It helped with conversions, but we was able to pull 107, 000 out of thin air, basically. It's 72 hours, like sheesh, very little effort. Yeah, that's, that's great. The psychology of why that happened is because that demand existed already. We just had to put a mechanism in play to remove the friction to allow that to flow.

And that's essentially what it is. And so that's why I was saying that I'm trying to break that down because it's not like. I'm not, I'm not Houdini, you know 

[00:25:28] Tieron: what I mean? You know, some people like to set themselves up like that. It's just, it's just divine spirits. It's me talking to them and then they wake up, they do something, money pop out.

[00:25:36] Tommie: Exactly. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's really about learning how to spot the opportunity and then figuring out the path of least resistance. You know, how do I do this without putting a lot of resources into it to prove the hypothesis, which is what we're doing with tests all the time. Right. You know, even with the two step thing, but I already had data on it.

You know what I'm saying? that's what it was. I, that's kind of where I was trying to go earlier. It's like, well, we run in tests. We're not breaking all of the stops out. We're trying to test these ideas small to understand if there's going to be some statistical data that suggests we're right or we're wrong.

And when we're right, now we can pull more resources to go harder with that. So what I was going to say about the webinar thing was I wanted to go hard at that from the gate. And I think that's why I was getting a lot of pushback because I had did it before, right? I'm saying, but this time around, it's like, you know what, let's just take a small percentage of our traffic and let's point it here and let's test it and let's see what happens.

Right. And then now it's just like, Oh my God, we about to go crazy with it. But, but essentially it's, it's in your best interest. When you're testing things and you spot these opportunities that you don't go too crazy with them unless you have the data to back up. Oh, I need to drop the major resources to go do this thing, right?

You want to find a way to test that the hypothesis of that on a small scale so that you can then double down when you have the data to support. You should, is that making sense? No, that makes it, that makes it maybe you can add some context to that. I can, 

[00:27:29] Tieron: I can. I was on, and this is why like looking, cause that's, that's what's so powerful about this podcast is that we are exposing people to things that we've spent.

Millions of dollars, hundreds of thousands of dollars on already, and have already experienced these things. We can jump on in and talk to y'all about this stuff because we keep our head on a swivel so we know what to look for and we've been exposed to so much already. So now we come on here, we come on this podcast and now we get the chance to expose you to some of the things that we've been exposed to.

So I'm going to tell you, I'm going to tell you an example. I was looking at, I was randomly looking at Fashion Nova's website. Or I think I forgot what I was on there for, but what I noticed was that fashion Nova somehow was pulling up with city. I was in. And was telling me that people in my city found these particular clothes to be fired.

I was like, this is, I was like, this is interesting. And when you think about how big fashion Nova is, when you see large companies, the Amazons, the fashion overs of the world, anybody 

[00:28:38] Tommie: else? That's a big, I wouldn't put Amazon and fashion Nova in the same bucket, but I get what you're saying. You see what I'm saying?

[00:28:44] Tieron: These people, these people got a large, they got a, they got a large swap of traffic waves of traffic coming to their website. So small hinges for them. Swing, you know, gargantuan doors, right? Yes. Oh, so I noticed, I noticed that they was doing this. So I turned around and added it to an opt in page. Yeah, the opt-ins was what, 8%?

6%. And from what I'm understand, that was 

[00:29:07] Tommie: pretty good when I added that on cold traffic. On cold traffic. On cold traffic, you get 10 on cold traffic, 10 to 15. I mean, it depends on, depends on what you're asking for in an opt-in. Right? Because you talking about name, email, phone number, right. Eight to 10% on cold traffic.

Yeah, that's pretty, that's pretty decent. So that's already pretty main email. You probably talking. 15, 20, 25 email only I've seen as high as. 40, 50, 60 percent email only right at the minute, every, every extra, 

[00:29:40] Tieron: Piece of friction. 

[00:29:41] Tommie: You add every, every extra piece of information on the form. You add, it's going to dramatically reduce how many people going to actually do that.

Even this, because, cause it's like, do you really need the name? Do you really If you really need their name, get the name, right? Because if you're doing a lot of personalization on your back end flows and things of that nature, get that name. But if you really ain't sophisticated like that, you probably don't even need the name.

You can just email only, right? That's true. If you got to do something with their phone number, get the phone number. But if you just ask them for the phone number, cause well, I saw something said, no, they asked him for the name, email, the phone number. So I'm going to ask for the name, email, the phone number.

It's ridiculous.

[00:30:27] Tieron: That was good. And I, and I love, and I love, 

[00:30:30] Tommie: I love that voice you put on, 

[00:30:34] Tieron: but not soon as we, soon as I added, soon as I added that one tweak, the opt in rate shot up to like 60%. Yeah, 40 percent 49 percent from just from something that a clothing brand, it was the, the, the two, the two audiences, the offers.

The everything is night and day from each other. Yeah. Night and day from each other. It's like, you know, selling the bottle of water and then somebody selling dump trucks, like it was night and day, but you got to, you got to go it, but the, the localization and the familiarization of what this process does is that's what.

That's what skyrockets the conversion. We're kind of getting behind, like, why do these things work? Right. And it's because the fact that it's familiar to me, like, Oh, this happened down the street. Right. Oh, this happened. Oh, this happened next door. So because it's so close, it takes you from, or it takes your brand or it takes your offer or it takes your product from being a stranger and something that's distant and out there to now with something that's down the street for me.

And now it's because, and now, now it feels safer. And now it feels like it's something that I can trust. I think that's the, I think that's the big psychological tweak that can happen. And you can, you can do this with other things too. Whether there's different things that you can go with. There's like some other, there's like a few other things that you can do as well to kind of bring that familiar, that familiar essence to your website or to your 

[00:32:02] Tommie: offer.

Yeah, but let's make sure we give them the keyword for them to go do they search on on how to do this. I think it's geo. What do they call it cold? Yeah, like not that hard. 

[00:32:14] Tieron: No, it's not that geo listing is what is like geo coding is what it's 

[00:32:18] Tommie: called. Yeah, it's something like geo. It's a code. It's just a piece of code.

It's really not that, it's really not that JavaScript. It's a piece of JavaScript. Yeah. If you know any, if you had to do any little, if you built a website or you messed around with your website, anybody that know how to mess with it, that probably touched trying to create a website could do it. It's not really that hard.

I was just trying to make sure we gave them the right keyword to look for. now I feel like we ain't laying on it is geo what's the name script? I'll look the name up, but we'll drop it in the resources too. Yeah. I just want to make sure we give, we give our listeners the, you know, where they can go look, thank you.

Geo locator script. 

[00:33:03] Tieron: Yeah. There you go. Geolocated script, geolocation 

[00:33:07] Tommie: script. That's it. You go geolocation script. So y'all can go look that up. And now you can find out more on how to do that, which again, it's, it's not that hard but I wanted to at least, you know, that's what we here do for our listeners.

We giving y'all the game. We give me out of psychology around why it works. And now we giving you resources. To go deeper. I mean, obviously we can't sit here and walk you through everything, but at least you can give you the keywords in case you guys want to implement this, you know, how to find more information.

So I just wanted to make sure we gave them that. 

[00:33:38] Tieron: Absolutely. And if you see anything dope too, like on any website, Right. Click on it and go to inspect element. 

[00:33:46] Tommie: View Page sources? What I do? You can expect element as well. Right. 

[00:33:51] Tieron: So those two things view page sources with Tommy just said, and I'm saying inspect element like dudes.

Cause I found, I saw this dope 3d. 3D graphic on the site, and it really just made the site pop, right? We all were talking about, oh, I just want my site to pop. I saw this dope 3D graphic, and I right clicked on it, viewed the image, and then I was able to send it to my designer and say, hey, create me something like this for my brand.

This thing was about beach products, and I'm not even in that niche. But I was just like, yo, here's the inspiration now, create me something else around whatever it is that I'm doing. I think there was one other, that was what I was 

[00:34:24] Tommie: doing. Go ahead, go ahead. No, I was just, maybe that's what you finna do then.

I didn't mean to cut you off. Cause I remember when you was talking before and I, you know, I know that there's a huge thing that you had somebody do on a store, right. It took them from like, man, I want to say, I want to say they went from like. They like 10 X off of that. Yeah. Was it 10 X? 

[00:34:51] Tieron: they went from 130, 000 to now they at 700, 

[00:34:55] Tommie: 000.

Golly. A month. Seven X. It's like six, like 

[00:35:00] Tieron: six X. And it's, the reason why 700 is because they went and bought their competition. Right. And then did it to that too. Implement this 

[00:35:07] Tommie: on that. 

[00:35:09] Tieron: So now they got two brands. Right. In the same space. Right. And was able to 

[00:35:15] Tommie: take everything from their brand.

Correct. Bought the competitor who wasn't doing any of these things. Exactly. Implemented it on that. Right. Now they got two brands occupying that space. Essentially guys, what he's saying is, they were able to expand their market share. Come on now. In the same niche or niche. Depending on what part of the world you from, we call it a niche, 

[00:35:39] Tieron: right?

Don't people say niche, right? In 

[00:35:42] Tommie: the same market niche and expand their market share. Yep. Because they were able to identify a competitor that didn't have. Things that they had, they knew if they applied these small tweaks, you could swing big for them to the point where he had enough confidence to say, let me go acquire my competitors anyway.

Go ahead, man. Explain the story. Thank 

[00:36:10] Tieron: you for the setup. And even, and even, and even another note to that, now they can turn around and sell their original store at a 

[00:36:18] Tommie: higher multiple multiple. 

[00:36:21] Tieron: So this one tweet has also increased their net worth. 

[00:36:25] Tommie: Come on, these, these, these small tweaks, 

[00:36:30] Tieron: I guess you indoors right here.


[00:36:35] Tommie: loud, loud, loud. 

[00:36:36] Tieron: Yeah, this is a net, this is a net 

[00:36:39] Tommie: worth disruptor, right? Hey, they messed around today and we, we don't went down the rabbit hole today for real facts, for real, for real. We giving up game. I feel like we need to be charging right now. Go ahead, man. 

[00:36:50] Tieron: So I looked at, so we looked at the, we looked at the market that they were in.

And looking at, obviously, again, just like you said, right, these things, I'm just coming down from heaven, but we're looking at the data and the data is screaming to me like, yo, you need to pay attention to this one thing that's happening right here. So I'm looking at the data and I'm like, how old are these?

How old is your customer base? And they was like, oh, our customer base is between, you know, 27 and XYZ. But I go to Google analytics and I'm saying like, no, the customer base is a lot older than this. So based on the way that these particular customers like to buy, we're missing that critical element in order to allow them to buy this way.

And all that was, was just adding a phone number to the website. I know some of y'all are like 

[00:37:34] Tommie: Because of the price of the product. 

[00:37:36] Tieron: But not just I think it was more so because that's the way that this particular consumer liked to consume. Regardless of what the price is, this was gonna work 

[00:37:45] Tommie: because But wouldn't you also say because of the nature of the product, they tend to have a lot of 

[00:37:51] Tieron: questions That's true.

For this type of a purchase? That's true. That is true. So 

[00:37:55] Tommie: talking to someone would be way more valuable. Absolutely. On top of the fact that they're an older, you know, demographic, which, you know, they used to bind like that. That's true. They had, I 

[00:38:09] Tieron: totally agree with that. They also had the Q& A section.

They had a video with people answering these questions. But just like you said, it's easier for me just to pick up the phone. Yeah, and ask my questions versus even watching your video because again, maybe somebody eyes are bad They don't have a glasses or whatever the case may be But we made it so that way they could just click twice and now they on the phone with somebody with somebody and that went from 130 to, it was like 130, 180, 260 per what?

No, I'm just, 

[00:38:44] Tommie: the, the, the, you said, 130 what? The revenue 

[00:38:47] Tieron: jump went from 130, 000 to 180, 

[00:38:49] Tommie: 000. 130, 000 what? 

[00:38:52] Tieron: Per what year? Oh, per month. Per month. Per month. Yeah. So they went from $130,000 a month to a 80, 

[00:38:59] Tommie: I thought you said 130 to 700,000. Not 

[00:39:03] Tieron: that it wasn't, it wasn't that it that 

[00:39:05] Tommie: I'm just talking about.

Initially you said one 30 to like 700,000. You talk about per month. 

[00:39:11] Tieron: Yeah, this is the month. This is what they make it monthly. 

[00:39:14] Tommie: This is slow down, slow down, slow down. So, so after this tweak, it went from one 30 and then they started doing what? So you're the 700 now is basically right. Gotcha. Gotcha. Cause you see it.

Initially you said one 30 to 700. So I was just trying to close that gap in my own mind, and I'm sure my listeners are hearing the same thing. Right. But I didn't catch the 130,000 per month. I just heard you say one 30 to 700. Right. . So I'm thinking 130,000, 700,000 a year. No, and then I'm thinking, you know, okay.

Okay. All right. Oh, this is a 

[00:39:52] Tieron: month. Yeah. So let me, lemme clarify for the listeners, $130,000 a month is where they were at. When they, when they first showed up at the door, then in about 30 days, they shot from 130, 000 a month to 180, 000 a month. Then I went and checked back on them. A few months later, they were at 260, 000 a month.

A few more months go by, check back on them. And then now they're now they're at 500, 000 a month. And they were, and they were crossing over to the 5 million mark, 5 million plus dollar mark. For the year and then now, because they bought this second brand and added the same thing, added the same tech to that company.

Now that company has another 200, 000 a month to their, to their revenue, which ballooned their revenue to 700, 000 a month. That's crazy. Small, small tweets. One thing. That's nuts. One thing. And the thing, and the thing about it is they would go back and they would add on other traffic sources. But guess what?

They will push those traffic sources through this one tweak.

no matter what other traffic sources, whether it's email, text messages you know mailers or whatever. Those traffic sources pass through this because this had a, this had a, a conversion rate. The conversion rate on this was way higher than everything else was on the store. And, and this conversion rate is gargantuan compared to everybody that's doing what they're doing in their category.

Not in their niche, but in their category. This is a category, this is a category accelerator, not just a niche accelerator. Yeah. Small tweaks. 

[00:41:35] Tommie: Yeah, because I mean, to your point, right. When you think about, when you think about acquisition and the ability to spot. These opportunities, the value that like, it's almost like just take over the industry facts.

It's almost like, let me go get some investors, show them what I'm doing. Yep. They can give me a big old bag and I just go buy up everybody and just go crazy with this. So instead of me just buying one competitor. I might just go by all of the competitors and just take up the whole, or like you say, category, right?

What products are adjacent to my market that can also leverage this and just keep going with it. You know what I'm saying? Just keep going with it. Cause to your point, right? That valuation now, cause you got Synergies now, you got both of those companies, you got economies of scale, you got the revenue component, you know, margin is probably better.

Absolutely. That overall valuation just went nuts. 

[00:42:40] Tieron: Exactly. And let's talk to this and to the point that you just made, right? From a mindset standpoint, because these particular owners don't even know the value Because they don't, they can't see that, okay, well, if we make these changes, then this is what the result is going to be.

They're still looking at their business. They're still looking at their business through the lens of, well, this is how much money the business can make. Of course I can do other things, but it's really not going to move the needle as much. So I think that my business is worth, let's just say 1 million.

Right. When you can come in and make this one tweak and now this business is worth 8 million. That was also a huge thing too, because they wasn't even in the mindset of asking for X number of dollars for their business. They were only thinking that, okay, well, my business made a million dollars this year.

So if I sold it to somebody, I could only sell it to them for a million. That's crazy. After this, it drastically changed. There was a, there was a huge mindset shift. Yeah. I knew it. Yep. Man, 

[00:43:42] Tommie: man, this has been powerful. I think at this point. We can't keep giving them all the jewels. I can't go on and on and on.

I got so 

[00:43:51] Tieron: many of these. We were playing 

[00:43:54] Tommie: paddle ball. Pickleball. You know what I'm saying? There probably need to be a series or something, right? Because I got... 17 years of stories like this, I mean, even when I talked about it in another episode and we may get into a deeper, but even like, if I go back to, you know, the 5, 000 a day to 70, 000 a day, or maybe I ain't talked about that, but essentially like, 

[00:44:18] Tieron: the 

[00:44:18] Tommie: thing for me was mindset because.

What these guys could pay was blowing me. You know what I mean? Right. And they would just basically like, we want to scale this account. They was already spending 5, 000 a day, but they wanted to scale it. Right. And the only thing, the only thing that was stopping them from scaling it was just spending the money.

But, but the person that was running it didn't understand that. I didn't understand that because they're telling me I'm asking them. Are you sure? And they was like, we can pay a hundred dollars for a conversion. And I'm like, are you sure? Right. They was having a, they was doing a free shipping product. So money seven and 95 money, lemme make sure I understand this.

So when somebody gives you $7 and 95 cents, you can pay a hundred dollars for that. And they was like, yes. That's insane. And I couldn't make the math work. See, this is 2011. There's like 2011. You got to know AOVs and backhands. You know, again, we're going to get into this in another episode, right? Yeah. I talked about it in another episode, but I didn't know all of the things that I know.

[00:45:38] Tieron: Let me slow, let me slow, let me slow this down for our, for our listeners. They are essentially saying that we will go 93 in 

[00:45:47] Tommie: the hole. They went going in the hole though, but see at the time they weren't going in the hole. This 

[00:45:52] Tieron: is what it appears. This is what it appears like on the surface, appears on the surface.

When you hear, and this is that. We're willing to go 93 in a row for every 7 buyer, 

[00:46:02] Tommie: but let me be clear. It was 8 really. Cause it's seven 95, but let me be clear on what the one thing was. No one had established what they could be willing to pay for that action. That was the one thing in that moment, the people before me that were running that account, got them to 5, 000 per day.

But the reason they didn't go to 70, 000 a day, like I did, it was because they didn't have an established. Cost per conversion. So the only thing I'm doing when I'm coming in is forcing them to give me a number. How much can you pay for someone that give you 7 and the response was 100. What is the number?

Because they knew the number. Right. Because they was running traffic on all these other platforms. But it was never really in the, in this scenario with Google display at the time. They hadn't for whatever reason, though, people didn't have nothing. They would just. Willy nilly doing people with okay, but it's like, these guys can't scale.

Like we want to scale, right? Do you think you can scale? And I'm like, absolutely. I think I can scale it, but it's like, are you sure? And they was like, we're sure. And I was like, well, this is about to be a walk in the park. I think, I think, I think, right. And I went from five grand a day to 70, 000 a day, only because I forced them to tell me that number.

Once I knew that number, and I was confident that they knew that that number was what that number was, that's what unlocked it. That's it. I didn't do anything special, to be honest with you. But what messed it up for me, mindset wise, because it gave me the opportunity, because the math wasn't math. So, I was like, are you sure?

I like asked these guys, like, so many times. I asked them this question like 20 different ways and they kept going to the same answer, right? And it blew me. And that's how I even learned back in AOVs and all of this stuff, cause I ain't really know that in 20, 2011 like that. I wasn't that far down the rabbit hole on that stuff like that.

And that put me on a whole other journey. Right. You know what I mean? But for me. I was able to deliver value in the sense that I forced them to give me a hard number or the max number, because I was coming from the CPA world myself, what's the maximum allowable cost per conversion number, right? And that's how we got to that number.

And that was the only difference between them spending 5, 000 a day and 70, 000 a day is just knowing what the limit was. And so I just blew, I just blew. Just blew the damn thing up, which then for me, it was like, wait, how are these guys spending 100 for a 795? Like I got to figure this out, but they was not really giving me the 

[00:49:05] Tieron: game.

Right. But anyway, that's 12 and a half X, you know, 

[00:49:10] Tommie: we're going to have another time. I probably should have left that out and kick that can down the road. So maybe we'll just lead it, lead the people, they want more of that. We can have that conversation, that story at another time. Let us 

[00:49:24] Tieron: know, leave us a comment.

Leave us a review and let us know, Hey, I want to, I want Tommy to finish this story about going from 5, 000 a day to 70, 000 a day. Because that's, that's 

[00:49:35] Tommie: what you want, what you want to leave him with. I mean, you know, that's kind of what I was getting at. like the whole weaving of all of these stories, the one common thing for me, you know, and I tell people it is all the time.

I see it almost like a broken record. Optimization is the name of the game. This is how we 

[00:49:55] Tieron: win. Like, most 

[00:49:57] Tommie: of these tests that we run don't always work. That's just the truth. Right. But, when you get the winners, and you stack winners on top, even Michael Jordan, right, considered the greatest basketball player to ever live, has said it out of his own mouth, he'd have missed more game winning shots than he'd have made.

Wow. But because of him keep taking them, He joined. Right. 

[00:50:23] Tieron: You know what I'm saying? Right. Steph Curry misses 

[00:50:27] Tommie: more shots than he make. But you don't hate him about that. Steph got a 40, I think his career average 3 point percentage is 45%. When you talk about threes, you know. Maybe his overall percentage is over 50.

But his 3 point percentage, what he's known for, is 45. That means 55 percent of the shots he take. He missed, 

[00:50:47] Tieron: right? But he's stiff. Right. You see what I'm saying? Right. You still pass on the rock. 

[00:50:54] Tommie: That's what this is. This is the same thing. Optimization is the name of the game. And so, you know, what I want to leave people with is like, you have to make it your business.

To figure out ways to tweak and optimize what you're doing, but in the vein of data in the vein of unless you got the capital, you want to test on a small scale, validate the hypothesis, then when the data dictates. What you should do more of, you can double down and you can put more resources into it because the data is giving you the guidance on that.

And, and, and that's really what the name of the game is. And so every time you can get a win like that, you know, if we look at the greatest baseball players of all time, I think the band average, like three, three, whatever it is. That means they only hitting the ball out of every 10 time they go to play.

They hitting the ball three times, they getting a hit three out of 10. That means seven times they striking out, getting thrown out, whatever the case may be. But they hall of fame of baseball making millions and millions and millions of dollars. Right. This is what it is, right? You just want to find those opportunities and you want to stack those wins.

On top of each other and the way you do that is through optimization That's the name of the game and that's essentially what this conversation was about and that's the common thread That's kind of what I want to leave people with what about you? 

[00:52:22] Tieron: I think you I think you put a bow on it, man I don't even really know if I can really even you know Give people anything more than what you just said.

I was just I guess I would just say that you know anytime that Anytime you can get people as close to the finish line as possible, no matter what your product service or offering is, if you can get people to what they really want, and if you really understand what people really want, whatever you can offer them, that's going to be a big, that's going to be a small thing.

That's going to increase your conversion. That's going to be one of them small hinges that swing a big door, get them, get people to as close as you can to what it is that they truly want. Like going back to the kid's product, right? Getting people closer to the source of why this, why these children are able to get these straight A's in their, in their classes, cause their conversion rate to jump up the pro the, the program was one thing, but get, but adding that coupon code to allow them to get as close as they can to the source is what people really wanted at the end of the day.

So find out, you know, find out how you can get people, how you can get your customers. As close as possible, you know, if you sell an haircare product and you can snap your fingers and get everybody, you know, 18 inch, afros, or 18 inch long, straight hair down their back. And that's what people will want.

They want that finger snap along with your supplement. So that's what I leave 

[00:53:36] Tommie: people with. Man, that's dope. That's dope. So hey, make sure you guys Subscribe, you know, review, give us a review. We love that feedback. We need that feedback. 

[00:53:46] Tieron: Yes. And let us know too, like what other, like what else, what else y'all would like us to talk about, business wise or anything that you're hearing, out in the streets.

 Let us know. I know somebody just did a quick, software update. I'm going to talk about that. And another episode, cause I sat down and watched it and I was like, yo, this is a game changer. So, 

[00:54:03] Tommie: like, you know, we got, Instagram, Facebook messenger, you know, by the way, cause I know we talk about, you know, letting us know what you guys, you know, things you guys want to hear us discuss.

I don't know if we have like in our podcast thing somewhere where you can drop that stuff, you guys can email us. You can go to our Facebook Messenger, Facebook page on Messenger. You can hit us up on IG Messenger as well. You know, on Tik Tok, Tik Tok. Yeah, I'll be forgetting about Tik Tok and we on Twitter.

Yeah. And so, so use those to send us that stuff. But we love to hear the feedback. Looking forward to it. So I just wanted to kind of add those extra components to like how you guys can get that information to us. we really want to hear it. And like I said, give us the reviews, let us know how we doing.

We really want to hear that stuff. So, you know, but today been a, been a master class. I feel like we gave some real, real game away today. I'm kind of proud of us today. I know we get, I mean, you know, sometimes we more philosophical, but today I think we, we kind of entire know me and you'd be on the thing we'd be, in our tactic bag.

I don't know. I don't, I want to make sure we don't get too caught up in that because strategy is huge without, without strategy, tactics are useless. I just want to make sure I'm clear on it, without strategy, tactics are useless. I mean, that's just, that's just what it is.

You know what I mean? So, I mean, most tactics are going to fail if you're doing them under the wrong strategy, you know what I'm saying? Sometimes the most basic tactics with the right strategy could make all the difference in the world, which is what a lot of these little hinges swing, big door moments that we're talking about is essentially what we're creating is we're doing them under the right strategy, which is why we was trying to break down.

Like. What it is, why it works, you know, how you can apply it. So that's all I'm gonna say, 

[00:56:08] Tieron: man, you got, you got, you got, you got me excited right now. I don't know about the listeners, but, you know, we just, we just said it was going to get out, but now, now I got, now I got to mention this back in the, back in like the, medieval times.

Strategy. Medieval on your ass. I went Medieval on the ass. . went medieval on the ass. Books. Books on strategy. When we think about like, 

[00:56:32] Tommie: Occult Art of War. 

[00:56:34] Tieron: Art of War, you think about like all of these occult books and these secrets and they all these secret societies and all like what are they hiding and so on and so forth.

The thing that they was hiding back in the day were books on how to, were books on how to think strategically. These were books that were only given to or sold to the aristocracy, right? It wasn't sold to common people. Absolutely. Even today's strategy on war and, you know, and how to go to war. And as you know, business is war.

So how to launch these different campaigns and how to launch these different strategic initiatives are still something that's not talked about primarily because the gurus, if you will, assume that you're too stupid. Right? In order to understand strategy. So they don't have those conversations. They keep having conversations with you about tactics, tactics, tactics, but the real game is Tommy just mentioned is the strategy game.

When you can level up, when you can level up to a strategy mindset, all of the tactics that you employ become 

[00:57:35] Tommie: gargantuan or lethal, powerful. More lethal. More way more lethal. Way more lethal Way. . Yeah, man. Way more lethal. Yes, sir. So I'm gonna leave. I'm gonna leave y'all. Yeah, let leave him on that.

[00:57:47] Tieron: We go. We gone. We with that, we, we, we. Yep. Yep. 

[00:57:50] Tommie: And with that burn, we gone. We burning out. We gone on. Y'all catch y'all Next episode. All right, y'all. Peace. Holler. 

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